Hell yeah. Great quote.
"It is contended by many that ours is a Christian government, founded upon the Bible, and that all who look upon that book as false or foolish are destroying the foundation of our country. The truth is, our government is not founded upon the rights of gods, but upon the rights of men. Our Constitution was framed, not to declare and uphold the deity of Christ, but the sacredness of humanity. Ours is the first government made by the people for the people. It is the only nation with which the gods have nothing to do. And yet there are some judges dishonest and cowardly enough to solemly decide that this is a Christian country, and that our free institutions are based upon the infamous laws of Jehovah." [Robert G. Ingersoll]
How freakin' hard is this for people to understand. Keep the 10 comandments off the courthouse lawns.
How freakin' hard is this for people to understand. Keep the 10 comandments off the courthouse lawns.
posted by Royce at 12:08 PM
10 Comments:
I can't give you the reference, but I know that near the turn of the century the US was working on trade negotiations with a country that was primarily Muslim. That country had a concern that the US, with many who called us a "Christian" nation, would try to impose religious beliefs.
The response in the trade negotiations said that not at that time nor at any time in the past had this country been established as a Christian nation.
I understand that the founding fathers were Deists, not Christians.
However, I would love to see the Yamas and Niyamas posted on the courthouse lawns!
Yamas - ethical disciplines
Non-violence
Truth
Non-stealing
Continence
Non-coveting
Niyamas - individual disciplines
Purity
Contentment
Austerity
Self Study
Dedication to the Lord
Very cool Fawn, very very cool. That about sums up my philosophy on life. minus dedication to the lord of course :-)
Movinman, very cool quote. I will try tp find its originator.
Our founding fathers had great ideas and huge courage. The "enlightenment" and subsequent American revolution was a revolt against all oppressive forces, including religion. As Fawn said, they were Deists, which is a half-step from Atheist. A supreme force created all of existence and then left the scene, leaving humanity to figure out what was going on.
The fact that not killing, not raping and not stealing, as human morality, is also shared by Christianity does not mean that the USA was founded on Christianity. As far as I know, coveting, worshiping false idols, and believing in any god you choose is legal in this country and always was.
As for the Muslim connection, I know the US traded with Muslims in the past. In particular, the slave trade was orchestrated by Muslims in Africa. Sad how some modern Black Americans see Islam as their true heritage when Muslims traded their ancestors' lives for money. The US is now past this practice, but Islam has a long way to go.
Dedication to the Lord is from the Hindus... back when when the Yoga Sutras were written everyone believed in god or gods because there was no science to explain natural phenomenon.
Buddhists don't believe in God... however they have alters and pray to the divine, which exists in everyone... just like the Lord.
We will have to continue this discussion in December!
Sweet, cannot wait to see ya'll. I'm really excited about it. Me being the stay at home dad I tend to have very few adult conversations anymore. It'll be a real treat to meet you guys in person. I forsee beer, great conversation, and something to do with Kettlebells............
Oh the other thing about me being athiest. Let's qualify it and say I don't think that a belief in god/gods is nessicary to achieve our full potential. Does a lion or rose need this belief to be the best lion or rose it can be?
I am open-minded to SOMETHING being out there. It's just that when anyone starts talking to me about God or gods or a higher power they take on the responsibilty of the burden of proof. All atempts so far do bring me this burden of proof have failed.
This in no way means my OPINION is absolute or unchangable.
If Jesus or Vishnu or Mithras descended from the heaven and had a frosty cold beverage with me I would:
1) make sure I hadn't accidentaly ingested mescal again
2)barring the mescal explination, believe in him/her.
Royce, I feel the same way... I just wish atheism didn't have such a negative connotation in the general population.
Royce,
Can't say I agree with you at all. The founding fathers prayed for days to Christ for guidance before they erected the declaration of independence. Although the founding fathers definitely never intended to force religion on anyone, they were very clear on who they knew to be God.
This is from townhall.com
1. THE FOUNDERS NEVER “WANTED TO ESTABLISH A SECULAR NATION.” In fact, they repeatedly and insistently averred that the survival of liberty and the prosperity of the United States required a deeply religious society and a populace passionately committed to organized faith. In his Farewell Address of 1797, President Washington (who had also served as presiding officer of the Constitutional Convention) unequivocally declared that “reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle…Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports.” His successor as president, John Adams (also known as “The Atlas of Independence”) wrote to his wife Abigail in 1775: “Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is Religion and Morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand.
A patriot must be a religious man.” Thomas Jefferson, who disagreed with Adams on so many points of policy, clearly concurred with him on this essential principle. “God who gave us life gave us liberty,” he wrote in 1781. “And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God?” Jefferson’s friend and colleague, James Madison (acclaimed as “The Father of the Constitution”) declared that “religion is the basis and Foundation of Government,” and later (1825, after retiring from the Presidency) wrote that “the belief in a God All Powerful, wise and good…. is essential to the moral order of the World and the happiness of men.”
Fawn,
Most of the founding father were devout believers in Christ!
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